Comments

knik trail rider wrote on Jan 5, 2009 2:24 PM:

" there is no fault because there is no real right of way here. the only way to really stop it from happening would be to put a 4 way stop on the trail, which neither the sled team or snowmachiners want. life goes on, be glad the musher or snowmachine operator did not get hurt. its unfortunate that both people suffered a loss in this accident, but maybe both will be more careful from here on out "




Knik Cruiser wrote on Jan 4, 2009 4:37 PM:

" Fellow trail user::You hit the point, though I didn't want to call the race organizers stupid. They did not mark the crossing with an Orange pie plate with an X, so no matter how fast you traveled. If a dogsled or a moose popped out, you will hit them,
It's just, this incident could have been so easily avoided ,with a simple trail marker, marking a race trail crossing for other users to see. Unlike a moose.....Thanks for confirming the facts. "




Fellow trail user wrote on Jan 4, 2009 4:30 AM:

" Even if there was an X on a moose, and you came around a blind corner TOO FAST, you would not have been able to stop!! Of course, it is the stupid moose's fault for choosing then to cross, I suppose? Having snowmobilied myself down some of these same trails, They are too narrow, too poorly marked all around, and too full of selfish riders who hit the throttle and never stop. Thank God the poor girl wasn't hurt, and that her dog team survived mostly intact. "




Knik Cruiser wrote on Jan 2, 2009 10:47 PM:

" Champ. You should really understand what happened before you comment and sound so obviously stupid.
THERE WAS NO FLAGGING, ON A BLIND CORNER AND RACE TRACK CROSSING.Have you ever had, or seen a moose run in front of your [a] car? You really should yield to the moose,they don't stop fast. you're more manuverable,,but sometimes theres no warning or time to swerve or do anything but brake and slide...SO you hit the moose. Seen hundreds of hit moose, Was everyone driving too fast?
Be nice if they were all painted orange with an X on them..... "




jp wrote on Jan 2, 2009 9:46 PM:

" if a dogsled is so hard to stop, then why would they want to be on trails that other users would be on? to me that would be wreckless endangerment, and animal cruelty, to subject these animals to such peril!

i don't really have anything against mushers or dogsledding, but i do question some of the things that some organizers do, and the fact that the mushers will go along with it.

there are lots of snowmobilers that have a terrible sense of responsibility/etiquette.
i just hope that no one else has to go through this. "




Champ wrote on Jan 2, 2009 11:45 AM:

" The snowmachine should have given right of way to the sled team. Everyone know that a snowmachine is the more manuverable of the two. "




Chugiak musher wrote on Jan 1, 2009 4:22 PM:

" RLT, Last year a pedestrian stepped off the curb on 6th avenue in Anchorage, was hit by a Semi, and dragged for blocks. DIED. Was it the semi's fault? Or the pedestrian who stepped in front of a moving vehicle? If a bicycleist is riding in the middle of the slow lane of the Glenn Hiway, and gets run over and killed, who's fault is it? You can be right, and you can be DEAD RIGHT, Be smart right. Listen for other users and Insist the race organizers mark the trail correctly...P E R I O D "




ok...this is good. wrote on Jan 1, 2009 3:24 PM:

" so.

it has been stated here several times that a "dogsled is not easy to stop" and that "its not easy to slow teams quickly".

so the snowmachine and the dogsleds have this in common.

why didnt she stop her dogteam at the intersection?

its a no-fault occurence-

but if the race is involved, and not well-marked, and i was the snowmachiner, i would sue the race organizers for damages to my machine. "




Mat-Su wrote on Jan 1, 2009 2:32 PM:

" Try to stay on task folks, We are discussing this incident only, Generalizations of all dog owners trucks being junk, or all snowmachines trucks being hot rods is for idiots, this incident was the race organizers problem, NO FLAGGING, I understand the rider is considering sueing now for repair costs because of all the bad press ALL snowmachiners are being given by a select group of small minded people. I bet the Knik 200 today, has flagging there, probably a person. Learn from your mistakes and take responsibility for your actions, and fix the machine. "




akwild wrote on Jan 1, 2009 11:56 AM:

" Jeff Deeter I agree. My last post was sarcasm for Mat Su's benefit, trying to show how silly Mat Su's comments appear. A very experienced and accomplished musher, the Idita quest champion Lance Mackey was hit by a snowmachine in a very well marked and high publicity event = the All alaska sweepstakes. It can happen to anyone, the speed of the machine is the factor. "




akwild wrote on Jan 1, 2009 11:54 AM:

" Jeff Deeter, I agree. That last post was sarcasm for Mat Su's benefit. I was pointing out that a very accomplished musher, Idita-Quest Champion Lance Mackey was hit by a snowmachine last year in a well publicized and marked event the All Alaska Sweepstakes. Speed of machine was the factor, same as in this case. The musher is most definitly not at fault, as I stated in my first post. Thanks. "




Mat.Su wrote on Jan 1, 2009 10:20 AM:

" Folks, its a blind corner, she popped out in front of a machine with a 60 year old man EXPERIENCED DRIVER If a car pull out from behind another car and suddenly is in front, Doesn't matter how old they are or how good your brakes are, you are going to hit them. Same here, so what could have avoided this collision.?
FLAGGING OF SOME KIND INDICATING A RACE IS IN PROGRESS AT ALL CROSSINGS FOR OTHER USERS TO SEE AND UNDERSTAND...PERIOD..
WHOS PAYING FOR THE MACHINE "




Kelley Griffin wrote on Jan 1, 2009 9:37 AM:

" RACES ARE NOT THE ONLY TIME DOG TEAMS AND OTHERS ARE OUT THERE! Mat Su and jp are prime examples of why it is so dangerous for anybody else - even other snowmachiners - to be out there. We are talking about multi-use trails and areas! Show courtesy and respect for others by only going as fast as you can see and react. EXPECT TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE NO MATTER WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK OR TIME OF DAY OR NIGHT!! Race or no race! "




lisnup wrote on Jan 1, 2009 8:25 AM:

" If the state or Mat-su Borough is responsible for these trails then they should clarify usage. Multi-use does not give precedence to any single activity this needs to be clarified before either party is liable.

Concerning a race, the sponsor/s need to be accountable for marking and safety for the event, publication in the paper and on the web is not sufficient, I would consider it advertising not a posting for race safety. The sponsors of any event is liable.

No speed is posted to how they use the trail so no fault to the snowmachiner speed. "




RLT wrote on Jan 1, 2009 7:35 AM:

" Whats with you snowmobilers up there. You've already killed one person through carelessness this year(I think he was a musher too). Thats like a vehicle hitting a pedestrian in a cross walk. Guess who's at fault. Maybe the inexperienced snowmobiler could have been more in tune to the dogs yapping or heavy breathing and slowed down. Sad story, glad others stopped to help. You call it snowmachining.I think thats just a euphemism for some who are on a big ego trip. "




Kristen wrote on Dec 31, 2008 8:46 PM:

" #1.Inexperienced musher not in tune with the sound of machines and to be more aware and slow down.
---
Dog teams are generally going around 10-12mph. Slow down?? What about snow machines going 60 mph??
----
#3.Innocent trail user has dogteam drive in front of it, and remeber he was 2nd machine out of 4.
---
Stopping a dog team is not as simple as stopping a snowmachine. By the time she could have stopped, she may have been through the intersection. Let's also not forget the fact that dog teams ALWAYS have the right of way on trails. "




Nina wrote on Dec 31, 2008 8:03 PM:

" Lets make an allegory. If Meredith was on a bike peddling her way down the sidewalks that don't really exist for pedestrians here, and a truck were to barrel into her at a street intersection, would the truck driver be correct in charging the biker for damages to the truck? She could have been killed in this incident. Would he still want to glean money out of a dead girl's parents for his inatimate snowmachine? Motorized vechicles are like a moving bomb at 50mph. Use common sense on trails yeild to slower traffic, hopefully you'd do it on the road. "




Jeff Deeter wrote on Dec 31, 2008 7:53 PM:

" These are "Multi-Use" trails, as has been pointed out by almost everyone commenting. So, snowmachiners on the trail need to be aware of slower moving users such as dog teams and skiers. I find the accusations that the musher is at fault completely ridiculous. A snowmachine traveling 50 mph at that intersection is completely in the wrong, no questions. AK Wild and Mat-Su, I have no clue what planet you dropped out of, but a 16 year old dog musher paying the bill of a 40+ year old snowmachiner who was 100% to blame, is absurd. "




Mat-Su wrote on Dec 31, 2008 7:49 PM:

" LB Try to keep up. The facts are clear...
#1. NO FLAGGING OF ANY KIND ABOUT A RACE.
#2.INEXPERIENCED DRIVER PULLED IN FRONT ON MOVING MACHINE
#3. MACHINER WAS #2 IN LINE OF 4
#4.RACE ORGANIZERS ARE TO BLAME
#5. I BET THEY MARK THAT, AND ALL BLIND CROSSINGS BETTER
#6.TRAIL IS JUST 1 OF MANY MULTI-USE TRAILS IN AREA
#7. THEIRE ARE NON-MOTORIZED TRAIL IN BOROUGH TO HOLD DOG RACES ON....USE THEM ANDS AVOID PROBLEMS
#8.CAN YOU IMAGINE IF IT HAD BEEN 20 ABOVE, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN HUNDREDS OF RECREATIONALISTS IN THE AREA "




skier Bob wrote on Dec 31, 2008 7:01 PM:

" The snowmachine was at fault. No matter what, what if it was a walker, or a skier, or biker? Going that fast where you can not stop or avoid a dogteam that has the right of way, the snow machiner was going way to fast. "




to Wil wrote on Dec 31, 2008 6:49 PM:

" Most of the idiot snowmachiiners, not all, buy themselves a large loud pickup and race down the highway with their large wide snowmachine trailers with a get out of my way attitude that says I don't give a crap about you or your safety. Look at me, I am a racing champion in my big bad pickup. The decal in my window proves it. Get out of the fast lane and out of my way. It is not a stretch to say that they act the same way out on the trail. Large pickup, small.....well you get the picture. "




LB wrote on Dec 31, 2008 5:04 PM:

" Remember what the iditarod trail was originally used for...Dog sleds, bikes and hikers. There are always people out there training. The trail was marked, it is always marked. Anytime you come to an interection on a snowmachine - you should slow down. Period. If you are out there all the time - you should know where the Iditarod trail is!
The race was printed in the paper and listed on many web sites. There is another race this weekend using the same trail. Non-motorized always has right of way on a multi-use trail. "




tonedg wrote on Dec 31, 2008 4:53 PM:

" The race event in question was a publicized event, this was also the second day on the same trail. What ever side you on, here it is..NON motorized always has right of way over motorized, period! This Jr musher was experienced, period. Blasting through a intersection at that speed is negligence, this comment from a snowmachiner myself. This was unfortunate ACCIDENT, hopefully it won't happen again. Luckily no person was hurt, sorry for the dogs. "




lab wrote on Dec 31, 2008 4:08 PM:

" at least the kids not in a meth lab or playing paintball. good for those that helped her out. "




Meadow Lakes Madman wrote on Dec 31, 2008 3:35 PM:

" Accidents do happen and not to lump everyone into one group a large majority of sleds I see on trails are usually operating with little regard for others. I have had similiar near run with quads during the summer while riding horseback. Have fun folks but remember there are other trail users that are not going 60mph, theres no reason why we can't all enjoy what's left of the trails we have. "




Ol Bear wrote on Dec 31, 2008 3:24 PM:

" Anytime a snowmachine hits a dog team the operator is going too fast for conditions. There simply is no excuse for running over a team and it is shameful to even think of blaming the musher. "




Jamie from MN wrote on Dec 31, 2008 1:37 PM:

" The other thing you'll find, Jamie, is that we dont care how they do it in the lower 48.

Mulituse means just that. Multiuse.

This was an organized race. mark it as such.

I agree the liability is with the race coordinators.

I, too would look to them for damages for the snowmachine. "




Jamie wrote on Dec 31, 2008 8:33 AM:

" One thing I noticed when moving to Alaska from Minnesota was the narrow trails up here compared to trails in the lower 48. If some mushing and snowmachine clubs were to join together to widen and groom some of the major trails there would be less chance of accidents.
Something like this:
http://houghtonlake.info/images/s3600015.jpg "




events wrote on Dec 31, 2008 8:32 AM:

" this event has to have permist to operate a business on public lands, right?

and a sfatey plan, right?

and general commerical liability insurance to operate the event right?

thats who i would ask to pay for a broken snowmachine.

if they dont have permits, insurance or a license to operate a business, go after the organizers.

liability is in their hands. "




B wrote on Dec 31, 2008 3:01 AM:

" Thank you, Ms. Mapes, for letting us know your missing dog was found and that she is okay. Also, thanks for the good news update on your injured dog, too. "




Mat-su wrote on Dec 30, 2008 11:31 PM:

" akwild finally gets it, Remember we are only talking about THIS incident, otherwise we will get off the subject and start bringing up dog abuse, culling, starving, things we just don't need to bring up. SOOOOOOO
#1.Inexperienced musher not in tune with the sound of machines and to be more aware and slow down.
#2.Poorly put on event, no markers or trailguards.
#3.Innocent trail user has dogteam drive in front of it, and remeber he was 2nd machine out of 4.
#4.Someone should offer to repair the machine ! ! !
Very good akwild, thank you. "




akwild wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:49 PM:

" Yes. I think the junior musher is at fault for running her team on the trail. It is also the fault of the race organizers for not marking the trail more. These are the errors. The snowmachine traveling through the intersection at 50 mph and running into the center of the dogteam is blameless. The junior musher should pay for his snowmachine damage. Obviously this problem is just because of poor marking a junior musher... that is why dogteams were hit in other well publicized and marked races. "




Mat-Su wrote on Dec 30, 2008 8:46 PM:

" Brenda RE-READ what I wrote again, THERE WERE NO TRAIL MARKERS, When you are riding a machine, you are watching as far out in front as you can, All trails look the same,no matter where they intersect, and to suggest THIS IS THE IDITAROD, LIKE THE PARKS HIWAY, Who would know, THERE WERE NO SIGNS, NO MARKERS AT ALL,suggesting ANY race was happening. The musher HAD to hear the first rider go past the intersection, and if she was experienced, would not have driven in front of the 2nd driver,Be aware!!!!!!!!! "




Brenda wrote on Dec 30, 2008 7:28 PM:

" I cannot believe anyone would suggest, the dog team was at fault. Nobody ever got killed by getting run over by a dog team, maybe a couple of laughs about all. The snowmachine went through the team, not the other way. In order to run through the gangline it would have to be hit from the side. Got a team maybe going 10 mph & people at the scene said 40-50 mph for the machine. Thank God it wasn't a human hit, race or no race the same applies SLOW DOWN pay attention "




jp wrote on Dec 30, 2008 7:07 PM:

" did you notice that most dog mushers vehicles have very limited visibility of their tail lights, or inoperable tail lights.
expired tags, and generally unsafe polluting vehicles?

this was directed towards "bad image"
you classified all snowmobilers as poor drivers.
that's hardly fair, like what i just wrote is.

there are bad apples in every user group.
but there has to be parameters set "standards" and perhaps for our snowmobile license fees, we could get a drivers manual for them.
and charge mushers a fee as well!!! they use the same trails!!! "




Mat-Su wrote on Dec 30, 2008 7:05 PM:

" I think we need to slap James up side the head, what a dipstick. There are so
many events that take place on all the multi-use trails in the Valley, that are done right, Watch when the K-200,,K-300, Iron Dog,Susitna 100 are put on, some use the same trail...... there are stakes everywhere!!! Who's paying for the snowmobile repair? The driver should sue for damages, negligence on the part of the race organizers "




jp wrote on Dec 30, 2008 4:27 PM:

" akwild, you need to know a bit more about this incident before making an idiotic comment like that.
were you there? did you see caution tape, or any signs stating that there was a race going on?
i was out there riding that day, i had no clue there was a race going on, neither did anyone i was riding with.
the race event coordinator should have at least made an attempt at letting perhaps local businesses know, or post a few signs at trail heads or intersections.
lucky more of them didn't get hit. geez "




Bad image...... wrote on Dec 30, 2008 4:00 PM:

" Has anyone noticed that snowmachiners not only speed with gross disregard for other people's safety, but they also seem to speed on the highway with their stupid snowmachine trailers. I would thinik they would want to project a better image for their sport. When I see one of them racing through my neighborhood, the image of a complete idiot comes to mind. They need to clean up their act. Both on the trail, and on the highway. "




payfor my machine wrote on Dec 30, 2008 2:16 PM:

" i say wheres the money for breaking my snowmachine?

if you cant control your dogteam, find another sport.,

these are multi-use trails.

figure it out. "




Curious1 wrote on Dec 30, 2008 1:51 PM:

" Snowmachiners fault... Dog mushers fault. Whenever anything happens someone has to be at fault. Why cant it be no ones fault, its just an accident and bad timing. Also we are all here judging when no one has all the facts surrounding the accident. Are the rules on the trail the same as on a road? Yield to the driver to your right. Be thankful no one was seriously hurt. That said, if you must assign fault- fault the snowmachiner, musher and race organizers equally or noone at all. "




Kelley Griffin wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:51 AM:

" The intersection might not be marked, but the Iditarod is like the Parks Hwy, the other trail is like cross street to that, and if I was on a snowmachine, I'd at least slow down before crossing.
The only way to mark 100% of the trail to cross traffic is to run 50 miles of snow fence.
Also, races are not the only time dogteams, ski-jorers, skiers, snowshoers, and those crazy bicycle athletes, etc, are out there, and they are also not just on the Iditarod.
Ride Aware! Be Seen! Play nice together! "




akwild wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:50 AM:

" It is completely the fault of the snowmachiner. A machine is much more easy to control at an intersection than a dogteam. To fault a junior musher who is running her team in a race on the literal Iditarod trail in the middle of the day in broad daylight is ridiculous. The snowmachiner should take complete responsibility, pay for the vet bills and any other expenses associated with the accident and take an active role in helping spread the word about upcoming sleddograces within the local snowmachine community. "




LJ wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:43 AM:

" Marilyn, glad the dog was found and she is ok, and that the injured dog is doing okay. Sounds like a scary time and I am glad no one was seriously hurt or killed. "




to Intersection wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Apparently, you are a iron dog rider and never seen a dog team. You can apply brakes on a machine and have it begin stopping immediately; when you call to a team to stop and throw your ice brake, even one physically attached to the sled that you step your whole body onto, it takes a lot longer to stop because the "engine" of a dog team is stronger than the musher and the dogs want to continue. The machine doesn't have that problem. So when you try to blame the musher, at least use logic and not bias. "




jp wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:06 AM:

" i use these trails all the time, and i have rarely seen a race marker. they tend to use the trails that were made by snowmobiles, and are heavily used by snowmobiles. if these are the trails they intend to race on, then they should be well marked, and monitored.
there are plenty of trails that are "no motorized vehicle" trails up by willow that could be utilized as well.
or in denali park for that matter.
i think there was a serious lack of responsibility by the organizers this time!
don't blame just the snowmobiler. "




DustMusher wrote on Dec 30, 2008 8:57 AM:

" This time thei ncident ended as well or better than could be expected. I know a lot of the mushers are trying to get awareness raised on the danger of sleds and smowmachines using the same trails.

Many thanks to the good sportsmen, Erin Reddington, Ray Reddington and Cym Smyth on their actions.

We flatlanders on the Outside salute y'all "




Marlene Daniels wrote on Dec 30, 2008 8:50 AM:

" Wonderful that Logo is found and appears unhurt.Best wishes for positive healing for all. Erin, Ray and Cim you show the spirit of true mushers--caring for dogs and each other. Congratulations. "




Mat Su wrote on Dec 30, 2008 7:33 AM:

" I can not believe a dog team ran into a snowmobiler, whoi's going to pay to fix the snowmobile? and the trama that person has to deal with, Organized sports on Multi-use trails need guards at any potential problem crossing areas, Everyone must learn from this, every user group who holds events must be held responsible for their races and quit making innocent trailusers the scapegoats for their shortsidedness "




lisnup wrote on Dec 30, 2008 7:22 AM:

" The trail used for this Club's 50-50 race should have been posted so snowmachiners were aware of the race. Post Red flags on the route or something, if this is a organized race then shame on them for not making the route safe. There are plenty of collision with mushers and machiners don't kid yourself. It's winter in Alaska, protect our trails post events and routes - how simple is that! Don't blame anyone but the group who decided to use this trail for a event.
Be responsible and keep everyone safe. "




intersections wrote on Dec 30, 2008 7:05 AM:

" it is just as much the fault of the dogsledder as i is the snowmachiner.

it occured at an INTERSECTION of trails.

Neither party yielded.

This is what is called a "no fault occurence". "




Kelley Griffin wrote on Dec 29, 2008 11:53 PM:

" Snow machine / dogteam incidents are absolutely not rare! As a dog musher, I have had several close calls, and every one of them was due to excessive speeds for the terrain/visibility on the snowmachine operator's part. And most have been during the day. Snowmachiners need to realize they are not the only ones out playing in the snow. Please ride for the conditions and visiblility and ride sober.
BTW, I really want to thank the snowmachiners that do see the dogs- 99.9% are courteous and give right-of-way, most times even shutting off the engine. "




cori wrote on Dec 29, 2008 11:17 PM:

" wa y to go! team effort!! all for one end one for all... love yall, C "




james wrote on Dec 29, 2008 10:48 PM:

" sounds like there were some good hands on the trail that day the reddingtons and smyth show what real sportsmanship is all about "




james wrote on Dec 29, 2008 10:44 PM:

" how stupid for a snowmachine to hit a dog team
i would think people riding them would be a little more careful thank god in this case there werent more serious injuries. i imagine the musher would have felt better if they could give the snowmachine rider a good smack up side the head for being so stupid. its just a a shame the musher trained so hard and is wiped out by a careless person "




Marilyn Mapes wrote on Dec 29, 2008 10:01 PM:

" Just want to let everyone know that the missing dog has been found & that she's fine. The injured dog underwent surgery today and he's home & healing. "